Turntables

[Cem]

Ron, I have two amps I use in two separate parts of the house. One is a Yamaha RX-V659, the other a Harman/Kardon AVR 700. Yamaha has phono input, not the HK.

[Ron Thorne]

Both of those components are designed primarily for home theatre applications though will also work for audio-only ones. Which amp do you plan to use with the new turntable, Cem? Personally, I think the Yamaha would be a better fit because of its power and built-in phono input. In that case, a phono amp would be superfluous. Are you using them in home theatre settings now?

More thoughts a bit later.

[Ron Thorne]

Ron, that Dual appears to be a nice, simple solution. I'm tempted.

If you had, say, a $500 limit, would you get a new machine such as that Dual ready to plug and play or an older, sturdier tt, plus a tonearm, cartridge and preamp? I'm leaning towards the latter, but it would require more time and effort… and potentially riskier and more rewarding.

I would likely wait until I could pounce on an unsuspecting seller on eBay with a vintage turntable and arm, with or without cartridge. But that's me, and not necessarily what I would recommend you or others doing.

For a straightforward, let's get to enjoying vinyl again, the Dual or similar quality table w/cartridge will be a good, safe starting point. You won't need a preamp if you use your Yamaha receiver. Different folks have different priorities when it comes to sound, as well as the appearance of their gear, too.

I'll be happy to answer other questions or concerns if I can.

By the way Cem, the (approximate) price I quoted from Everest Audio earlier was in Canadian dollars.

[Cem]

Ron, that Dual appears to be a nice, simple solution. I'm tempted.

If you had, say, a $500 limit, would you get a new machine such as that Dual ready to plug and play or an older, sturdier tt, plus a tonearm, cartridge and preamp? I'm leaning towards the latter, but it would require more time and effort… and potentially riskier and more rewarding.

Both of those components are designed primarily for home theatre applications though will also work for audio-only ones. Which amp do you plan to use with the new turntable, Cem? Personally, I think the Yamaha would be a better fit because of its power and built-in phono input. In that case, a phono amp would be superfluous. Are you using them in home theatre settings now?

….

I would likely wait until I could pounce on an unsuspecting seller on eBay with a vintage turntable and arm, with or without cartridge. But that's me, and not necessarily what I would recommend you or others doing.

For a straightforward, let's get to enjoying vinyl again, the Dual or similar quality table w/cartridge will be a good, safe starting point. You won't need a preamp if you use your Yamaha receiver. Different folks have different priorities when it comes to sound, as well as the appearance of their gear, too.

I'll be happy to answer other questions or concerns if I can.

By the way Cem, the (approximate) price I quoted from Everest Audio earlier was in Canadian dollars.

Fantastic work, man…
As you may've alluded to, I would probably be safer with the Dual or that type of plug and play rig, even though I like the idea of the vintage one, but I know little about gear. Do you think with the Yamaha amp and some tower PSB speakers, the difference between, say, the Dual or a vintage set-up for the same money could be discernible?
I suppose, the Dual could become an attic rec room tt in a few years, if I can afford one I like better by then or I could upgrade the cartridge, etc.
Cheers!

[BeBop]

Not to draw discussion off-track, but I've noticed a lot of new-to-vinyl/returning-to-vinyl people listen mostly or exclusively through headphones. If you have that tendency, let me know and I'll share another idea. Otherwise, Ron's advice is good.

[Cem]

Not to draw discussion off-track, but I've noticed a lot of new-to-vinyl/returning-to-vinyl people listen mostly or exclusively through headphones. If you have that tendency, let me know and I'll share another idea. Otherwise, Ron's advice is good.

(Funny, I was just about to mention, that I just found out: the Grados mentioned above, ordered from Audio Advisor can't be sent to Canada… free trade my ass)
More than likely some headphone use on the main tt, but mostly speakers. I hope to have another set-up upstairs probably, which would get more can use. Why?

[BeBop]

Back in the '90s, I was still (30 years on) listening almost exclusively to LPs, and mostly with headphones. I found and a nice little tube phono preamp with headphone output (a prototype at this point) and really enjoyed it.

Within a few years, the music world was hit with three (enduring) throwback fads: LPs, headphones and vacuum tubes. I despise faddishness, so I ditched the thing...but it was good for its purpose.

[Chazro]

WAY before I had any interest in high-quality music reproduction I was a hardcore music-lover! In retrospect, my 1st 'audiophile' purchase was a pair of AKG 240 headphones. Before all the gear I eventually bought, it was just me, my records, a record-player, a receiver, and my headphones! Never thought of it as a fad, for me it never has been. My main rig is tube-based. While I understand certain products being fads or trendy, for me it's always been about maintaining a balance between sound quality and convenience.

[BeBop]

WAY before I had any interest in high-quality music reproduction I was a hardcore music-lover! In retrospect, my 1st 'audiophile' purchase was a pair of AKG 240 headphones. Before all the gear I eventually bought, it was just me, my records, a record-player, a receiver, and my headphones! Never thought of it as a fad, for me it never has been. My main rig is tube-based. While I understand certain products being fads or trendy, for me it's always been about maintaining a balance between sound quality and convenience.

My "fad" comment isn't directed at people like you/us. I'm not sure where you live, so forgive me if I'm telling you my perceptions about something you know more about than I. In sort of a rolling wave, some things seem to move across the country - swing music (Squirrel Nut Zippers type), fixed gear bikes, cupcakes, lactose intolerance, gluten intolerance, low-carb eating, food trucks, buckets of ice - among people who seem to act on nothing more than the popularity of those things.

I'm an old man. That means two things: I've been listening to LPs for the better part of a half century. I watched them nearly die at the hands of "perfect sound forever". They lay dormant for 25+ years. Then, like so many things 25 years-historical, they enjoyed a resurgence. Good for them. Some of the newcomers/returnees to vinyl will stick around. I'll bet many don't. I've been watching the record stores open rapidly, and now begin to close. (New York magazine features new businesses in it's periodic "looks ahead". A couple of years ago, it was full of record stores. Current issue (Fall 2014), none.) Watching people on public transit, those little white earbuds are fading away; headphones rule, for now anyway. (I can see headphones sticking around; their superiority in some ways is pretty clear.) Tubes for Everyman? Mmmmmmmm...no.

The other thing being an old man means: "Kids these days..."

[Chazro]

....I hear ya, one old-timer to another. Trends/fads exist, no doubt about it. The current 'Beats' headphone phenomena is a perfect example. Overpriced, barely acceptable sound quality, unbelievably, they've become a form of jewelry, more to be seen than heard. What's even more incredible is that 75+% of headphone sales worldwide last year were beats! There's a reason why Dr. Dre made a billion for selling the line. The upside to this tale is the headphone boom inevitably helps the audiophile hobby as SOME of those beats buyers will get bit by the bug! The busiest site I'm currently hanging out is, bar none, headfi.org.

[Ron Thorne]

Chazro & BeBop (and others, of course), I'm glad that you're saving some time for this "Little Jazz Forum That Could"—Jazztalk. I appreciate your continuing support and involvement. Unlike cupcakes and Beats headphones, this is no fad.

[BeBop]

I don't think jazz draws faddish people. Perhaps someday, I'll be proven wrong. That'd be interesting!

[Cem]

Just an update:
Today, the stylus for my hand-me-down Kenwood arrived in the mail. First time in over 5 years, I got to hear some vinyl at home.
First on was, a fairly OK to risk with the new tip LP, a Bobby Hutcherson album, Highway One, which I got cheap recently... for good reason, as I feared, it's on the schlocky side, but I was happy to hear it, nevertheless. Now playing, Jimmy Giuffre's Freefall (funny, wdavis mentioned), which I recently got, hearing on vinyl for the first time… beautiful, so much better than digital! Next up, maybe a brand new one, fresh out of its sleeve, Ingebrigt Håker-Flaten's recent project The Young Mothers' (with Stefan Gonzalez, Frank Rosaly, et al.) A Mother's Work is Never Done, which I know is going to kick it!

As it turns out this tt needs to be my main one for a while, since there are various financial considerations, including a new furnace I forgot we are getting… ouch! Down the road, I will get something with more clarity and range.

Thank you, again, for all the tips!

[Ron Thorne]

You're welcome, Cem.

It's so cool to read that you're enjoying your "new" old school turntable, man.

Spin, then repeat.

[Cem]

As I was saying….

this beast just popped up:

http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649148346-thorens-td-165-turntable-with-ortofon-cartridge/

Any thoughts, people?

[BeBop]

It's a fine turntable. I had a TD160, a stone-reliable apparatus. I can't speak to the price on this TD165 or the pairing of the Ortofon with the Thorens arm. I'd take the claims about the stylus with a grain of salt (as I'm sure you do); tough to say what it's been through, even if it's not many hours.

[Cem]

Yeah, I always assume having to replace the stylus.
Did you say 160? Here you go… several up for sale at once. Unusual to have so many Thorens up for sale.
http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/classifieds/31-turntables/
What do you think?
I'm still hoping to come across a $50 relic in good shape at a Value Village or some place like that… good luck!

[BeBop]

A Music Hall might serve you well. Perhaps not this one (arm? cartridge? ... though it is cheap), but a Music Hall. Modern design. This even has USB output.
http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/ ... turntable/