Let us deify Sonny Rollins

[Tom Storer]

Late-50's Rollins is just unbeatable. Just the two years of 1956 and 1957:

Played in the groups of Miles Davis, Thelonious Monk ("Brilliant Corners"), and Max Roach ("Live at Basin Street"). Also recorded with Kenny Dorham, Dizzy Gillespie/Sonny Stitt, and Abbey Lincoln.

His own albums for that 24-month period were:

Sonny Rollins + 4 (Roach's group with Rollins leading)
Tenor Madness
Saxophone Colossus
Plays for Bird
Tour de Force
Sonny Rollins, Vol. 1
Way Out West
Sonny Rollins, Vol. 2
The Sound of Sonny
Newk's Time
At the Village Vanguard

Of those the best-known are probably Tenor Madness, Saxophone Colossus, Way Out West, and of course the incredible Village Vanguard sessions. But the others are *great*. "The Sound of Sonny" is a classic tenor-with-rhythm album with Sonny Clark, Percy Heath or Paul Chambers, and Roy Haynes that has long been one of my favorites. "Vol. 2" has some amazing playing by Rollins and J.J. Johnson. And all of these albums have those hard-swinging 1950's rhythm sections.

That full, dark, glorious tone, those melodies spinning out... truly a magnificent time for Rollins and for jazz.

[pig pen]

Strangely enough I just had Saxophone Colossus come up on random play and was just thinking the same thing.

I love his sound during this era when he was using a large chamber mouthpiece and playing with a lot of depth to his tone.

[John L]

As great as Rollins output was in second half of the 1950s, Stan Getz beat him out every year in the Down Beat Readers Poll for tenor saxophone player of the year. I guess that Rollins was thinking, "what more do I have to do?"

In some ways, I like 60s Rollins as much as 50s Rollins. The 60s Rollins may have been a bit less naturally brilliant, and more self-consciously searching without always finding, but the high points were ever so high! He can still hit those high points every now and again.

[Tom Storer]

Scott, you need to check out more Rollins! A guy I work with also worships at the feet of Coltrane. He feels that other jazz musicians are mere mortals, pleasant enough but NOT COLTRANE. I'm going to work on him, though. Do you know "East Broadway Run Down"? 1966, with Garrison, Elvin, and Freddie Hubbard. Powerful.

John, the 60's stuff is of course also amazing. And before that, there are several live trio dates from 1959 which of course you know. YouTube has a bunch of filmed performances from a concert in Stockholm, I think, with NHOP and Alan Dawson that are brilliant. My favorite is Aix-en-Provence, with Henry Grimes and Kenny Clarke. Incredible atmosphere on that one.

In the 60's, I've just discovered "The Standard Sonny Rollins" which is jaw-dropping (my jaw drops, anyway). With Hancock or Jim Hall, and Bob Cranshaw and Mickey Roker on most of it.

[A. Kingstone]

Best tenor player in the world.

Nuke em' Newk.

[John L]

Nah, there's a reason why Coltrane is so revered across multiple genres.

Got nothing against Rollins, but saying he's better than Coltrane is like saying Ford is better than Ferrari.

Coltrane may be a Ferrari, but Rollins sure ain't no Ford.

[A. Kingstone]

I said 'in the world'.

[drumsolo]

Let's put it this way, during that period of 1956-1957, nobody could touch Sonny and even to this day,you can't get what Sonny was selling then.

The only stinker on that list from Tom to my ears is Plays For Bird, and the only one I haven't heard is Tour de Force.

I was just wondering if there are any fans of the Village Vanguard records that haven't heard the RVG version that adds a lot of downtime chatter from Sonny? While it doesn't add up to a whole lot, it's still a must-hear for big fans of the record, imo.

[A. Kingstone]

Scott. I've been thinking about your assessment of Rollins and wonder what other tenors you like?

Dexter? Stitt? Mobley?

Also, is there a point in his career where Coltrane loses you? For me it's more or less after A Love Supreme. Prior to that his sound is mesmerizing.

Have you heard Rollins & Trane on Tenor Madness?

I'm not trying to convince you of anything other than spreading some Sonny on a weekend sandwich sometime.

[A. Kingstone]

..........

And yes, I own Tenor Madness and have indeed heard it many times.

But the trading on the song Tenor Madness. I think Sonny cuts Trane.

[A. Kingstone]

,........... I'm a very happy boy.

That's all that counts.

May listen to some tenors tomorrow.

[John L]

..........

And yes, I own Tenor Madness and have indeed heard it many times.

But the trading on the song Tenor Madness. I think Sonny cuts Trane.

A bit of historical context here: When Tenor Madness was recorded, Coltrane had been with Miles for only a half a year, had been struggling with a heroin addiction, and was still an up-and-coming tenor who would really only establish himself as a tenor giant a year later after taking time off to clean up, move his playing to a higher level, and then join the Thelonious Monk quartet. Rollins, on the other hand, was already riding on top of the world as "the successor of Bird" and idol of 100s of tenors.

So I doubt that many perceived this at the time as a battle of tenor giants. It only came about because Rollins elected to use the Miles Davis rhythm section for the record, and Coltrane, also a member of the quintet, decided to come to the session to hear Rollins.

Still, I think that Trane holds his own pretty well on Tenor Madness. At least, the contrast of style and approach is so great that Coltrane and Rollins complement each other more than engage in one upmanship.

[A. Kingstone]

Interesting. I think Rollins was very competitive in situations like these. His sides with Coleman Hawkins I find a little bizarre, almost as if he wanted to be ultra modern in contrast to Hawks traditional sound. I may be wrong but I don't think Rollins enjoyed playing with Herbie Hancock. Both of these records are from the RCA phase.

[John L]

Not to mention the curious nature of Rollins giving up performing in public so he could woodshed for nearly three years once Coltrane became the prominent tenor player on the scene in '59.

Hasn't Rollins himself come clean about being annoyed by all the accolades Coltrane had started receiving and that it played a substantial role in his decision?

I don't think that is was so much the accolades that got to Rollins. Rollins still received plenty of accolades himself at that time. But Coltrane and Ornette Coleman were pioneering new directions that Rollins somehow felt that he needed to come to grips with before moving on. At least that is the way that I understand it.

[Tom Storer]

Got nothing against Rollins, but saying he's better than Coltrane is like saying Ford is better than Ferrari.

"Better than" is of course silly at that level. But I would say that Rollins and Coltrane had very different strengths. To me Rollins had a kind of sardonic wit that is part and parcel of his improvising style. The one real criticism I have of Coltrane is that he lacks playfulness, which to me is an essential part of jazz. He reaches ecstatic levels but it's always very serious. Perhaps he couldn't have have gotten to his heights of fervor and technical breakthroughs without his particular earnestness. Rollins' musical personality, to me, is richer if more down-to-earth, where Coltrane is other-worldly--he goes further but has to give up something to get there. Something that, in the final analysis, I would need on my desert island more than I would need Coltrane's sublimity.

[John L]

Got nothing against Rollins, but saying he's better than Coltrane is like saying Ford is better than Ferrari.

"Better than" is of course silly at that level. But I would say that Rollins and Coltrane had very different strengths. To me Rollins had a kind of sardonic wit that is part and parcel of his improvising style. The one real criticism I have of Coltrane is that he lacks playfulness, which to me is an essential part of jazz. He reaches ecstatic levels but it's always very serious. Perhaps he couldn't have have gotten to his heights of fervor and technical breakthroughs without his particular earnestness. Rollins' musical personality, to me, is richer if more down-to-earth, where Coltrane is other-worldly--he goes further but has to give up something to get there. Something that, in the final analysis, I would need on my desert island more than I would need Coltrane's sublimity.

Rollins still has plenty of sardonic wit.

Your comparison of Coltrane and Rollins is interesting in that respect. Ironically, it is actually one reason why I often feel closer to Coltrane. In the age of post-modernism, I really admire Coltrane for doing it the old fashioned way, always putting all of his cards on the table in complete seriousness. With Rollins, you often get the feeling that he is playing with your mind and holding back the trump card.

[stonemonkts]

Got nothing against Rollins, but saying he's better than Coltrane is like saying Ford is better than Ferrari.

"Better than" is of course silly at that level. But I would say that Rollins and Coltrane had very different strengths. To me Rollins had a kind of sardonic wit that is part and parcel of his improvising style. The one real criticism I have of Coltrane is that he lacks playfulness, which to me is an essential part of jazz. He reaches ecstatic levels but it's always very serious. Perhaps he couldn't have have gotten to his heights of fervor and technical breakthroughs without his particular earnestness. Rollins' musical personality, to me, is richer if more down-to-earth, where Coltrane is other-worldly--he goes further but has to give up something to get there. Something that, in the final analysis, I would need on my desert island more than I would need Coltrane's sublimity.

Very nicely put, and the reason I love both of them. I find Rollins the more interesting improviser. The overall musical experience of listening to a Coltrane quartet is sublime, especially 1961 and beyond.

[hornplayer]

As great as Rollins output was in second half of the 1950s, Stan Getz beat him out every year in the Down Beat Readers Poll for tenor saxophone player of the year. I guess that Rollins was thinking, "what more do I have to do?"

Interesting... Stan Getz has never beaten Sonny Rollins in my poll.

[A. Kingstone]

Another reason Rollins is a hero is his dedication to standards. They are hard and they are right. Modal music I find boring (Coltrane is a rare exception). I imagine Sonny played some modal over the years but he seems to prefer changes.

All hail.
All hale
aw hell.

[LennyH]

To me, Coltrane made greater, more important music overall but I enjoy listening to Sonny Rollins play the saxophone more.

[A. Kingstone]

To me, Coltrane made greater, more important music overall but I enjoy listening to Sonny Rollins play the saxophone more.

Wow!

That is succinct.

[jwaggs]

So, Claude... did Rollins change his mouthpiece after those Saxophone Colossus years?

I like Rollins' tone much better than most sax players -- but my favorite, in terms of tone, has to be Ben Webster.

And, as far as improvisation goes, nobody beats Rollins.

[pig pen]

So, Claude... did Rollins change his mouthpiece after those Saxophone Colossus years?

I like Rollins' tone much better than most sax players -- but my favorite, in terms of tone, has to be Ben Webster.

And, as far as improvisation goes, nobody beats Rollins.

As far as I know he switched from a Link to a Berg Larson somewhere in there. I guess beyond that I find a change in his sound concept throughout the years from a very rich sound in the 50s to almost a shrill sound these days, at his level of playing I suppose he could sound how he wanted regardless of equipment.

[bluenoter]

http://www.esquire.com/blogs/culture/sonny-rollins-what-ive-learned

[pig pen]

And another piece from July's Downbeat:

http://www.downbeat.com/digitaledition/2014/DB1407/single_page_view/31.html