Who doesn't like "mainstream" jazz?

[BeBop]

No judgment involved here. On other jazz discussion forums where I've hung out, there have been a few folks not interested in the "avant garde" (for simplicity, say developments since 1960 - late period Coltrane, Bitches Brew and so forth), a few not interested in the very earliest days of jazz (pre-Ellington or pre-bebop). But most people have found something to enjoy in the swing, bebop, hard bop, bossa periods. Setting aside a few very specific dislikes, I enjoy it all: ODJB to today, including most fusions. This isn't to say I value it all equally (Bird > straw hat recreations of "Dixieland" from the late 40s/50s).

So, is anyone here living entirely outside the mainstream?

[Noj]

Above all I like rhythms and melodies. I've tried to enjoy the free/avant-garde end of things but it just doesn't appeal to me. I'll turn toward the silly stuff like dirty old blues songs and funny jazz singers before I go toward the dissonant, noisy, rhythmless stuff. Bebop, hard bop, soul jazz, funk jazz...that's my bag.

I do love the long, drawn out jazz tracks with lots of room for lengthy solos (ei. Alice Coltrane Journey In Satchidinanda, Pharaoh Sanders Karma, John Coltrane A Love Supreme, etc.).

[Noj]

I picked up Interstellar Space as a foray into that end of Trane's catalog. It's my least favorite to date. Crescent is my fave. Give me what "Wise One" does over what's happening on "Mars" any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

[Noj]

No doubt. I'll try any of his recordings at least once. All the other Coltrane albums I have, I love. I have 11 various albums on Atlantic, Blue Note, and Impulse, plus the entire Prestige discography.

[Noj]

I have:

Bethlehem 2CD set
Blue Train
Ole Coltrane
Giant Steps
Coltrane's Sound
A Love Supreme
Africa/Brass
Crescent
Ballads
Coltrane
Complete Village Vanguard
Duke Ellington & John Coltrane
John Coltrane & Johnny Hartman
Bags & Trane
Fearless Leader Box Set
Side Steps Box Set
Interplay Box Set
European Tours Box Set
Interstellar Space

Yes, I do have a Dropbox account.

[jwaggs]

I am probably more in love with blues and early jazz than I am love with mainstream jazz or free jazz.

I'll take Joe Sullivan most any day over Cecil Taylor, or, God help me, even Bud Powell.

[Ron Thorne]

Hey, what's goin' on? Folks are talkin' about jazz and stuff here. So, it may not be dead, after all?

Where's The Preacher?

[LennyH]

Do you use Dropbox?

I'm (really) not trying to muscle in on whatever you're exchanging but what exactly are you using Dropbox for in this case? I'm curious.

I got Dropbox on my phone and PC a few months ago. What an incredibly useful service. I also got more secure a year or so ago and put all of my passwords into a password manager (and use unique passwords for different sites, etc). I can sync up my password database between devices automatically through dropbox. Man, technology has gotten cool.

[A. Kingstone]

I am probably more in love with blues and early jazz than I am love with mainstream jazz or free jazz.

I'll take Joe Sullivan most any day over Cecil Taylor, or, God help me, even Bud Powell.

Tough to see sarcasm online but I've never heard of anyone hating Bud Powell.

[Tanager]

jwaggs said: "I'll take Joe Sullivan most any day over Cecil Taylor, or, God help me, even Bud Powell."

followed by:

Tough to see sarcasm online but I've never heard of anyone hating Bud Powell.

And for me, that's the first time I've seen him used as a (somewhat) stylistic parallel to Cecil Taylor (at least, as I interpret the sentence).

I like stuff which pushes the edge a bit (Scott's beloved Dolphy, Coltrane up until Rashied Ali showed up, plenty of other stuff), but the really atonal stuff doesn't do anything for me. Brotzmann, e.g., is someone I find just about unlistenable. But I don't much care for Stravinsky, either, so I'm probably just a cretin in need of a bath.

Sometimes, I just gotta binge out on someone who just strikes a groove and stokes it thoroughly - three or four Horace Silver disks back to back does the trick when I'm a mood like that. Nothing remotely edgy, but some days you have to redline the Bluesofunkmeter (you do have one, don't you...).

On a related note, any reason we're only setup for one level of embedded quotes? That's gonna make extended discussions ungainly at best.

[stonemonkts]

I like music from every decade, and almost every style. The neo-bop thing still leaves me cold though, unless Joe Lovano is a member of that club (I never considered him one, but what do I know). Aside from that, I like it all.

[jwaggs]

I don't think I "stylistically" compared Bud Powell to Cecil Taylor. I made a reference to mainstream jazz and free jazz.

Nor did I say I "hated" anyone. I said I preferred certain styles over what might be called "mainstream" jazz.

As to Bud Powell, I think it is pretty well accepted that he was a right-handed player. He played the piano like a horn, and he pretty deliberately did that. I am not the first person to point that out. Others, like Art Tatum and Paul Bley -- both "two-handed" players -- have said the same.

I prefer listening to his brother, Richie, who died the same night with Clifford Brown.

[A. Kingstone]

Powell's harmony is pretty sophisticated. His right hand is just half the story.

[John L]

Still can't stomach Interstellar Space. That was an unfortunate choice of recordings.

In this case, "unfortunate" is a matter of taste. I am certainlty VERY happy that it was recorded.

[pig pen]

I can't say that I categorically dislike any style of music. There are times when I get bored with "mainstream" jazz (as defined in this discussion). But then there are times when I can't get enough of it. Same with some of the more "out" styles of jazz, although there are some players that I will always find time to listen to.

I've been playing a lot of unstructured improv lately, so I do find myself doing a lot more listening in that area and skipping over more traditional recordings. My morning workout music today was Peach Orchard from the William Parker, great stuff!

[pig pen]

Peach Orchard is truly outstanding. Especially the title track. Haven't listened to that one in a long, long time...

I hadn't either, it came up on random play after skipping a bunch of more mainstream jazz, that was the connection with this conversation in case anyone was wondering. Sometimes connecting the thoughts is a challenge.

[moldyfigg]

I've done some categorizing of my collection and I've stuck "mainstream" on the post-swing/pre-bop stuff. As I've said ad nauseum, jazz reached its apotheosis with hard bop.

Skipping the basics, melody, harmony and rhythm leads to anarchistic noise.

[Monte Smith]

Skipping the basics, melody, harmony and rhythm leads to anarchistic noise.

Not to mention religious syncretism, liberation rhetoric, and ridiculous clothes.

[HenryMc]

Most jazz is museum music now. Coltrane died 45 years ago, miles nearly 22 years ago. The current crowd recreate to various degrees the excitement of earlier eras. Ther are some tremors of excitement in European new classical and avant but otherwise it's increasingly played by schooled musicians adept at re creation rather than creating something new. Zorn i hear someone yell from the sidelines case in point , he's been mining that groove for years now. Every now and then a craze for someone will rise from the trades. It seemed even David Murrays farts were recorded in the1980s. Then there was the Dave Douglas then Avishi Cohen trends. So yeh I dig bird, miles, my beloved 60s avant guard but with the exception of native dancer can't listen to 70s shorter at all. I still buy jazz, oping to be wowed, excited but increasingly I am disappointed.....and don't start me on live jazz....

[walto]

I think I'd like every jazz recording I own, from whatever era, a little bit better, if all the standard blues pieces on it were eliminated.

David Sanborn's "In My Own Dream" on whatever Butterfield Blues Band album it's on would be an exception to this rule, except that it's not really a jazz album, and that piece isn't really a blues tune anyhow. There was a period in the free jazz era where every single record had at least one obligatory blues piece on it. I'd just skip it. But I don't like the big band versions either, or the 50's stuff. I generally want to scream whenever I hear a basic 12-bar blues song, unless it's by some Delta Blues guy.

[John L]

In my mind, a 12-bar blues can be either the most exciting or most banal thing to listen to. It all depends on who is playing what. The context strips down a soloist of all the fluff and fancy harmonies to hide behind. It takes musical genius to deliver something new and compelling in that situation. When that delivery occurs, nothing in music is more exciting to me.

[walto]

In my mind, a 12-bar blues can be either the most exciting or most banal thing to listen to.... nothing in music is more exciting to me.

Or less so to me.

[Dickran (ran)]

I was very fortunate to have been introduced on my own free will. Later I was even more fortunate to have been , for lack of a better word , mentored , by a man who I drank with with by the name of Mike Shea. He was a cinema-tographer who was killed , with all the irony in the world, in a helicopter accident , shooting a meat loaf video. He also made , and I would recommend this documentary on Maxwell St. called " And This Is Free"

While I hung onto almost every word he had to say we differed on definitions like :mainstream" . I am to this day in love with Art Tatum because of him. But he also introduced me to Lennie Tristano and countless others that by any definitions wouldn't be considered mainstream. I have my preferences and in the context of music I'm not sure any one of them qualify's as mainstream.

[John L]

I was very fortunate to have been introduced on my own free will. Later I was even more fortunate to have been , for lack of a better word , mentored , by a man who I drank with with by the name of Mike Shea. He was a cinema-tographer who was killed , with all the irony in the world, in a helicopter accident , shooting a meat loaf video. He also made , and I would recommend this documentary on Maxwell St. called " And This Is Free"

While I hung onto almost every word he had to say we differed on definitions like :mainstream" . I am to this day in love with Art Tatum because of him. But he also introduced me to Lennie Tristano and countless others that by any definitions wouldn't be considered mainstream. I have my preferences and in the context of music I'm not sure any one of them qualify's as mainstream.

That raises an interesting question as to how we are defining "mainstream" here. The term was once used to describe a type of small group swing that even excluded bebop. Now it would seem that some here have in mind almost all styles that emerged between traditional New Orleans jazz and the Avant Garde. In that case, it would be hard to find a jazz fan who likes nothing from that large and diverse set of music. To say that we all like "mainstream" from that point of view does not imply that we all like the same thing.

[John L]

In my mind, a 12-bar blues can be either the most exciting or most banal thing to listen to.... nothing in music is more exciting to me.

Or less so to me.

Understood