R.I.P.

[Ron Thorne]

Sadly, we've had so many deaths to report in recent times that it seemed like a good idea to consolidate those threads in one place.

[ValerieB]

I would vote not to do that. I think they deserve to stay individualized, unless it will cause some kind of technical difficulty.

sorry, Ron, I think I misunderstood. you're probably talking about making a new topic for the threads.

[Ron Thorne]

Yes, we're just trying to make things a bit neater.

We have no intention of changing the process for individual postings of deaths in the jazz community.

[bluenoter]

Y'all beat me to part of this, but I'll post it anyway.

I would vote not to do that. I think they deserve to stay individualized, unless it will cause some kind of technical difficulty.

Valerie, they still are individualized. (The change has already been made.) The thread that you're reading now is one of the threads in the new R.I.P. forum. All 33 of the old threads have been moved here, and people will post new threads here.

Please click and look: R.I.P.

See all the individual threads?


To get to that view of the whole R.I.P. forum from the index page / forum menu page / front page:

Click Jazz News on the left side of the page.
Then click R.I.P. on the left side of the page.

[stonemonkts]

A few weeks ago I pondered a post that basically pointed out how the front page of the forum contained so many RIP threads, and why I thought so. Obviously jazz has been around a long time so deaths will continue on an unfortunately frequent basis. I believe the multitude of RIP threads speaks more to the moribund state of jazz discussion itself, and perhaps to the state of the music in the 21st century. Or it speaks more to message boards today. Who knows.

I agree to consolidate them but if you click "view active topics" as I do, they will still appear up and down the page. I'm just blabbering here. I guess what I am trying to say is, when a message board's titles have too many which state "rest in peace" (if you speak the words out in your mind), something is not quite right.

[bluenoter]

I believe the multitude of RIP threads speaks more to the moribund state of jazz discussion itself, and perhaps to the state of the music in the 21st century. Or it speaks more to message boards today. Who knows.

I agree to consolidate them but if you click "view active topics" as I do, they will still appear up and down the page. . . . I guess what I am trying to say is, when a message board's titles have too many which state "rest in peace" (if you speak the words out in your mind), something is not quite right.

Thanks, stone. It seems to me that JT members can do only two things about the situation:

1. Create fewer announcements that "jazz people" have died (and add fewer comments in response to such announcements). Naaah.

2. Create more posts that are not announcements that "jazz people" have died (and add more comments in response to such posts). The death announcements would then be less prominent in the "view active topics" list (etc.), unless my logic is off. It sure would be nice if there were more posts in the other JT forums that are jazz-related.

Re "consolidate them":

For everyone's info., it seems worth repeating that each death announcement
still appears in a thread of its own. The only difference is that those threads
are now located in a subforum of Jazz News called R.I.P.

[Cem]

Farewell to Jean-Jacques Avenel, Abdul Wadud & Marian McPartland… at least 3 greats departed in just the past week or so. Sadly, musicians from the golden years of 50s to 70s are leaving us --nothing we can do. Maybe one thread for all makes more sense?

[bluenoter]

Farewell to Jean-Jacques Avenel, Abdul Wadud & Marian McPartland… at least 3 greats departed in just the past week or so. Sadly, musicians from the golden years of 50s to 70s are leaving us --nothing we can do. Maybe one thread for all makes more sense?

Cem---

Marian McPartland died a year ago.

If you Google cellist Abdul Wadud death rumor, you'll read that his death has only been rumored, and for the second time in five years. If you can provide some solid confirmation that he died, please do.

Very unfortunately, I fear that Jean-Jacques Avenel indeed died recently---but if that's true, I wish his death would be reported somewhere other than in the French press and on jazz message boards. I personally think we should wait a little longer before someone starts an R.I.P. thread for him at JT.

Re one thread for all the deaths in the jazz community: A member of JT objected to that idea as soon as the new R.I.P. (sub)forum was announced; Ron and I had already concluded that it wouldn't work. (Please see #2 and #3 of this thread.)

[Cem]

Thank you, Rita, I see now.
Just a member here, but I still feel that it's too much focus on deaths. We don't need to be disrespectful, just pragmatic. Too many death threads, imo. What it must look like to the average person visiting… that this site and the music is all about reminiscing and about the dead. Most of those dead would want us to focus on the present and the future. I've never met a jazz musician I liked, who went on about the glory days, etc. Just my usual, unsolicited, prickly pear opinion.

[bluenoter]

I still feel that it's too much focus on deaths. We don't need to be disrespectful, just pragmatic. Too many death threads, imo. What it must look like to the average person visiting… that this site and the music is all about reminiscing and about the dead.

Cem, that's exactly what we were trying to improve on by moving the death threads out of the general Jazz News forum, where they were appallingly dominant. What would being "pragmatic" entail---being more selective about which deaths to start threads about? If so, what should the criteria be---the ages of the deceased? Their "weight" in the jazz world ? Please flesh that idea out (oy!) if possible.

Judging from the R.I.P. subforum's index/menu page, people seem to want to post (and read) death threads. As I wrote above, I'd like to see not fewer death threads but more threads about other things (preferably jazz-related).

Just my usual, unsolicited, prickly pear opinion.

Consider your opinions solicited, permanently!

[Cem]

Hey, Rita, what I meant was just one mass grave for all… of us. No need for separation. Just reply to the original post about a particular deceased person, instead of starting a new thread. There could be a "Jazz", "Other Music" and "Alley" R.I.P., I guess. What do you think? I hear your point about more threads about other things, but it might make sense to simplify R.I.P. first. It's as if we are showing our priorities as a group by dedicating so much space, time and energy to passings on… reading obituaries in the paper first, as it were.

[jtx]

I think that the fact that there are many R.I.P. topics and a good deal of activity on them indicates that they are meaningful to those who are taking the time to post and reply. I also agree that it might be overwhelming for Jazz News or The Alley or other forums to be filled with them, since it can make it hard to locate other topics of interest, particularly when there are a number of notable deaths in close succession.

My thought is that a separate forum for all of these topics probably makes the most sense, either called "R.I.P." or something non-abbreviated (e.g. "In Memoriam", "Farewells", "Notable Passings", etc.), which serves as the central location for all of them, whether the person being commemorated is a jazz musician, critic, commentator, author, actor, celebrity, politician, artist, or whomever people are moved to write about at their passing. This way, people who aren't interested in the forum can skip it, while the latest "R.I.P." topic will always be visible on the front page of the site for those who are interested.

No mystery about where they are, and no collision with other topics.

[bluenoter]

Farewell to Jean-Jacques Avenel . . .

. . . if that's true, I wish his death would be reported somewhere other than in the French press and on jazz message boards. I personally think we should wait a little longer before someone starts an R.I.P. thread for him at JT.

I'm finding that his death has been reported on websites in other European countries, but they tend to cite either reports in the French press or nothing at all. I can't imagine why no one in the U.S., Canadian, or British press appears to have noted it.

I e-mailed the alto saxophonist François Carrier, of whom I happen to be a big fan, and asked him whether he can confirm his old recording partner's death.

Edit: I also left an AM message for Fred Hersch's contact person, asking the same thing.

[bluenoter]

Hey, Rita, what I meant was just one mass grave for all… of us. No need for separation. Just reply to the original post about a particular deceased person, instead of starting a new thread. There could be a "Jazz", "Other Music" and "Alley" R.I.P., I guess. What do you think? . . .

In the light of the posts by everyone who's commented on the matter so far, I think that I'm still thinking, and I think that Ron is still thinking.

However, I'm guessing that 99.9 percent of JT's readers and posters use the default view of posts---sorted by post time (and in ascending order). With our software, does a truly "threaded by subject" view of posts even exist? I doubt it, unless perhaps such a view requires posters to specify a relevant title for each of their posts. But I dislike threaded views of posts even when and where they exist. As such, I'm opposed to discussing more than one person's death in any given thread (to address just that proposal). And frankly, I'd like to see how the present arrangement works out.

[bluenoter]

Farewell to Jean-Jacques Avenel . . .

. . . if that's true, I wish his death would be reported somewhere other than in the French press and on jazz message boards.
_____

I'm finding that his death has been reported on websites in other European countries, but they tend to cite either reports in the French press or nothing at all. I can't imagine why no one in the U.S., Canadian, or British press appears to have noted it.

To my knowledge, that vacuum still hasn't been filled, but sad to say, I received definite confirmation of J.-J. Avenel's death. Accordingly, we now have a "farewell" thread for him: Jean-Jacques Avenel, R.I.P.

[mjb]

If an item is posted in this section do we really need "R.I.P." after the name?

I did not add it after "Kenny Wheeler" but I do see it there now.

Is it not redundant?

[bluenoter]

If an item is posted in this section do we really need "R.I.P." after the name?

I did not add it after "Kenny Wheeler" but I do see it there now.

Is it not redundant?

I added it, Michael. Every other thread title in that section contains some reference to the death of the person (which I didn't add), and I can think of several reasons why that's as it should be. One reason is that the title "Kenny Wheeler" (for example) may have been used or may one day be used for a general thread about him. Another reason is that readers may glance at the thread title on the index page / front page and click on it without having noticed what section the thread is in.

If you'd like to have the "R.I.P." removed from the Kenny Wheeler thread, it may be a small matter, but I'd nonetheless feel more comfortable if you'd PM Ron and ask him what he thinks. Thanks.

[hornplayer]

Looks like the Jazz Police decided Natalie Cole doesn't belong here. Sad.

[bluenoter]

Looks like the Jazz Police decided Natalie Cole doesn't belong here. Sad.

June, there are comments about her passing in the Natalie Cole thread, which in fact is in one of JT's jazz-related forums, Jazztalk Central, not in Other Music. But please remember, the roles here aren't supposed to be that Ron and I start threads and everyone else either comments in those threads or simply reads them. It just can't work that way. If you'd like to start a "Natalie Cole — R.I.P." thread, please do!