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How do you distinguish jazz from rock and funk music?
Posted: July 8th, 2014, 2:45 am
by onlinejazz
How do you distinguish between jazz , rock and funk.
Re: How do you distinguish jazz from rock and funk music?
Posted: July 8th, 2014, 3:58 am
by bluenoter
Onlinejazz, your question in the thread title is different from your question in post #1 and less complex. I suggest that we address your question in the thread title---"How do you distinguish jazz from rock and funk music?" It calls for fewer permutations by way of contrast, and it might turn out to be thorny enough!
Would you like to tell us how you would answer that question?onlinejazz, in the "Who I is." thread, wrote:I am a professional jazz musician based in New York, who loves to share her extensive knowledge of music through her articles and blogs.
Re: How do you distinguish jazz from rock and funk music?
Posted: July 8th, 2014, 5:57 am
by pig pen
I find that with straight-ahead jazz the distinction from the other genres is pretty obvious. Where things get a bit harder to define is with groups that are a little less traditional in their approach to the music, for example:
Happy Apple
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=im7nnvvIrPoDefinitely has some rock influence and I'm sure the jazz purists would never consider it jazz.
For me I'm not all that hung up on labels so I guess as long as I enjoy the music I don't care what it's called.
Re: How do you distinguish jazz from rock and funk music?
Posted: July 8th, 2014, 7:40 am
by steve(thelil)
It's a little tricky to say (and tricky to get any kind of consensus) for many reasons, among them:
1) because rock and funk are in someways offshoots of jazz
2) because songs in the popular genres of music (I don't mean "mere pop" music) are often categorized by
the audience they are marketed to rather than based solely on their musical structure.
-eg, God Only Knows and Eleanor Rigby are both considered rock songs. Yet their musical structure is closer to classical music or art music (IMHO)
-eg 2: Moondance is considered a rock song. Yet structurally is is much closer to jazz (again, IMHO)
Re: How do you distinguish jazz from rock and funk music?
Posted: July 8th, 2014, 9:02 am
by moldyfigg
Rock and funk came from the blues as does jazz, but rock, et al, is usually limited to three chords while jazz isn't. That may be over simplistic but most jazz players can play rock if they were motivated to while very few rockers can play jazz.
Re: How do you distinguish jazz from rock and funk music?
Posted: July 8th, 2014, 3:21 pm
by Mike Schwartz
This may be boiling things down a bit simply, but to me the absence of and the level [and often] the length and type of soloing is a major separator.
In the decades where the word jazz was kidnapped by an entire movement called *smooth* the question for me was most often "Where's the improvising?" That stuff was and what's remaining still is instrumental pop music.
Re: How do you distinguish jazz from rock and funk music?
Posted: July 8th, 2014, 4:10 pm
by Cem
… different hats!
Re: How do you distinguish jazz from rock and funk music?
Posted: July 8th, 2014, 4:26 pm
by Ron Thorne
onlinejazz, please feel free to provide us with your blog address and article URLs.
I'm very interested in learning more about your work and thoughts in the music world. What instrument(s) do you play?
Thanks!
Re: How do you distinguish jazz from rock and funk music?
Posted: July 9th, 2014, 6:32 am
by steve(thelil)
moldyfigg wrote:Rock and funk came from the blues as does jazz, but rock, et al, is usually limited to three chords while jazz isn't. That may be over simplistic but most jazz players can play rock if they were motivated to while very few rockers can play jazz.
Rock is clearly more simplistic than Jazz. But the statement that rock music is "usually limited to three chords" is much more simplistic than either and simply dead wrong.
Re: How do you distinguish jazz from rock and funk music?
Posted: July 9th, 2014, 7:39 am
by bluenoter
steve(thelil) wrote:Rock is clearly more simplistic than Jazz. But the statement that rock music is "usually limited to three chords" is much more simplistic than either and simply dead wrong.
Hey, it may have been valid about 55+ years ago. Not all of us stay abreast of every little trend. 
Re: How do you distinguish jazz from rock and funk music?
Posted: July 9th, 2014, 7:50 am
by steve(thelil)
bluenoter wrote:steve(thelil) wrote:Rock is clearly more simplistic than Jazz. But the statement that rock music is "usually limited to three chords" is much more simplistic than either and simply dead wrong.
Hey, it may have been valid about 55+ years ago. Not all of us stay abreast of every little trend.
HAHAHAHA!!!
Re: How do you distinguish jazz from rock and funk music?
Posted: July 9th, 2014, 9:38 am
by moldyfigg
Maybe they use six chords now, megasimpliticallty speaking. If there were an electric failure, they's be out of business.
Re: How do you distinguish jazz from rock and funk music?
Posted: July 9th, 2014, 12:40 pm
by steve(thelil)
Good thing electricity has gotten fairly reliable these days.
Otherwise the rest of us would also be longing to listen to unamplified jazz in places without light, heat or air conditioning, refrigeration, ice and cooked food.
Re: How do you distinguish jazz from rock and funk music?
Posted: July 9th, 2014, 1:07 pm
by Jazzooo
"That may be over simplistic but most jazz players can play rock if they were motivated to while very few rockers can play jazz."
I used to believe this too, but have learned from up close and personal experience that it's really not even close to being true, Clint. I'm certainly not trying to make you appreciate rock but many jazzers who think they can 'play rock' sound every bit as lame as rockers who think they can 'play jazz.'
There are of course players who go both ways. But they are the exception in my experience.
Re: How do you distinguish jazz from rock and funk music?
Posted: July 9th, 2014, 1:39 pm
by Chazro
1st thing that comes to mind is a level of sophistication. While there may be examples of 'sophisticated Rock' and 'sophisticated Funk', the word seems to lend itself more easily to Jazz, no? Interesting question!
Re: How do you distinguish jazz from rock and funk music?
Posted: July 9th, 2014, 3:44 pm
by moldyfigg
Big J McNeeley played rock and funk before the rockers were out of diapers and he played pretty good jazz too.
Re: How do you distinguish jazz from rock and funk music?
Posted: July 9th, 2014, 5:23 pm
by LennyH
Kind of like what a Supreme Court Justice once said about porn: "I know it when I see it". Only, you know, it's not porn and you use your ears instead.
Re: How do you distinguish jazz from rock and funk music?
Posted: July 9th, 2014, 5:24 pm
by LennyH
steve(thelil) wrote:Rock is clearly more simplistic than Jazz. But the statement that rock music is "usually limited to three chords" is much more simplistic than either and simply dead wrong.
Three-Cord George Thorogood thinks otherwise.
Re: How do you distinguish jazz from rock and funk music?
Posted: July 9th, 2014, 5:28 pm
by Ron Thorne
Yeah, this thread question really begged
another (smartypants) question. "By listening?"
Re: How do you distinguish jazz from rock and funk music?
Posted: July 10th, 2014, 11:08 am
by Cem
Re: How do you distinguish jazz from rock and funk music?
Posted: July 10th, 2014, 2:25 pm
by A. Kingstone
Jazz = primarily upbeats
Rock/Funk = primarily downbeats