The Next Big Thing?

Postby **Mike Schwartz** » October 16th, 2013, 9:10 pm

This may be a hard topic testing memories for names and bands and recalling the hype .

Having thought about it after seeing the name Steve Grossman in some liner notes.
When I was in school 100 years ago

some friends of mine were playing sessions with Grossman who was all the rage and played soprano sax on Miles Davis' "Tribute To Jack Johnson" album.

He was definitely supposed to be 'The Next Big Thing' which did not happen.

:thinking:

Who else?

Postby **uli** » October 17th, 2013, 4:18 am

Where is Ollie when we need him?

Postby **Steve Reynolds** » October 17th, 2013, 6:03 am

the next Big Thing is the next show for me.

Maybe Rainey-Halvorson-Laubrock this Saturday

or

maybe I'm not going to anything until:

Malaby's amazing band with Ben Monder with TWO drummers on November 9th

the reality is that the music IS new, vibrant and evolving

Postby **steve(thelil)** » October 17th, 2013, 6:29 am

Steve is apparently unfamiliar with the expression "the Next Big Thing"

Christopher Holliday isn't.

Postby **bluenoter** » October 17th, 2013, 7:14 am

What I wonder is, the next big thing---and the current big thing---in whose perception? Ours (insofar as quite a few of us have similar enthusiasms and preferences)? If not, then whose, and what are the criteria? For example, I thought of Joshua Redman as having had his career fizzle out. But when I Googled him, I saw that he's been active all along, steadily putting out albums and performing. (I also think of erstwhile
---cough!---"young lions" whose names, indeed, I can't recall.)

So even more subjectively than usual,

Once said to be the next big thing and became the next big thing but no longer are:

Ben Allison
Sabir Mateen
Chris Potter
Nasheet Waits

The next big thing and the current big thing:

Tony Malaby, and I'm on board all the way

Postby **Jazzooo** » October 17th, 2013, 7:36 am

By definition, even if you are the next big thing, you can't remain the next big thing.

Chris Potter may not be talent deserving wider recognition although I'd challenge that statement as I would with most players I admire, but he sure makes a huge contribution to the project s he chooses.

Kenny Garrett is another that comes to mind.

Postby **Tom Storer** » October 17th, 2013, 7:53 am

Rita, you're right--by what criteria? Chris Potter and Nasheet Waits are about as successful as modern jazz musicians get these days. They're in constant demand. Maybe they don't get magazine covers as they once did?

Postby **steve(thelil)** » October 17th, 2013, 8:00 am

bluenoter wrote:What I wonder is, the next big thing---and the current big thing---in whose perception? Ours (insofar as quite a few of us have similar enthusiasms and preferences)? If not, then whose, and what are the criteria? For example, I thought of Joshua Redman as having had his career fizzle out. But when I Googled him, I saw that he's been active all along, steadily putting out albums and performing. (I also think of erstwhile
---cough!---"young lions" whose names, indeed, I can't recall.)

So even more subjectively than usual,

Once said to be the next big thing and became the next big thing but no longer are:

Ben Allison
Sabir Mateen
Chris Potter
Nasheet Waits

The next big thing and the current big thing:

Tony Malaby, and I'm on board all the way

Tony Malaby is a wonderful musician, but he's just not what the phrase "Next Big Thing" refers to.

Postby **bluenoter** » October 17th, 2013, 8:08 am

steve(thelil) wrote:Tony Malaby is a wonderful musician, but he's just not what the phrase "Next Big Thing" refers to.

And he never was? (Maybe I should have mentioned the time frame.) What do you take to be the accepted definition of "Next Big Thing," then?

Postby **steve(thelil)** » October 17th, 2013, 8:13 am

bluenoter wrote:
steve(thelil) wrote:Tony Malaby is a wonderful musician, but he's just not what the phrase "Next Big Thing" refers to.

And he never was? What do you take to be the accepted definition of "Next Big Thing," then?

It involves being very widely known/celebrated. I could be wrong, but I don't think Malaby is even known by most casual jazz fans.

Postby **bluenoter** » October 17th, 2013, 8:23 am

steve(thelil) wrote:I could be wrong, but I don't think Malaby is even known by most casual jazz fans.

Screw 'em! Let's say we're tawking among ourselves. Mike even gave us a topic.

Or at least let's say that we're not depending on the perspective of casual jazz fans. Here I'm being guided by Mike's example in #1---Steve Grossman???

Postby **Steve Reynolds** » October 17th, 2013, 8:33 am

nice to know that Rita knows greatness

Not widely known but the *greatest* tenor saxophonist in NYC!!!

well for me, he certainly is the most exciting and when on his game, the most energetic and most capable of playing what seems impossible.

at least he is the most daring, unpredictable and among everything else, extremely well-versed in all aspects of jazz and improvisation.

I told him he is like Evan Parker with a groove.

And his music IS a big deal - he plays often and all around the world - so I think a few more people know what's up with the great saxophonist.

damn, that feels good.

Postby **steve(thelil)** » October 17th, 2013, 8:45 am

Greatness Shmateness.

You look for any opportunity to discuss your conception of greatness.

Which is great, basically.

But still doesn't change the fact that neither of you were responsive to the concept of NEXT BIG THING, which was what the thread was supposed to be about.

BTW, Mike didn't define "Next Big Thing" by saying Steve Grossman fit the description. Mike's point was that people predicted Grossman would be the "Next Big Thing"....AND THAT HE NEVER WAS...

(PS. I've seen Malaby live....and wasn't as impressed as you two were.)

Postby **bluenoter** » October 17th, 2013, 9:01 am

steve(thelil) wrote:Mike didn't define "Next Big Thing" by saying Steve Grossman fit the description. Mike's point was that people predicted Grossman would be the "Next Big Thing"....AND THAT HE NEVER WAS...

(PS. I've seen Malaby live....and wasn't as impressed as you two were.)

In this case, whether Grossman fulfilled the prediction is irrelevant. By your definition of "Next Big Thing," he wouldn't have qualified as the subject of such a prediction.

Re Malaby: He performs in a million ever-changing contexts; I'm not surprised that you weren't knocked out by him (as leader, composer, improviser, and player) on the basis of a few (I assume) performances. If you haven't heard Adobe, an old album of his, I can say only that it's what sold me on Malaby, and at first listen. Then again, tastes vary. You wrote in #8 that he's "a wonderful musician," though, so yes---great, shmate.

Postby **steve(thelil)** » October 17th, 2013, 10:11 am

bluenoter wrote:In this case, whether Grossman fulfilled the prediction is irrelevant. By your definition of "Next Big Thing," he wouldn't have qualified as the subject of such a prediction

Are you saying that nobody even predicted renown for Grossman? Please explain.

Postby **steve(thelil)** » October 17th, 2013, 10:15 am

bluenoter wrote:
steve(thelil) wrote:Mike didn't define "Next Big Thing" by saying Steve Grossman fit the description. Mike's point was that people predicted Grossman would be the "Next Big Thing"....AND THAT HE NEVER WAS...

(PS. I've seen Malaby live....and wasn't as impressed as you two were.)

In this case, whether Grossman fulfilled the prediction is irrelevant. By your definition of "Next Big Thing," he wouldn't have qualified as the subject of such a prediction.

Re Malaby: He performs in a million ever-changing contexts; I'm not surprised that you weren't knocked out by him (as leader, composer, improviser, and player) on the basis of a few (I assume) performances. If you haven't heard Adobe, an old album of his, I can say only that it's what sold me on Malaby, and at first listen. Then again, tastes vary. You wrote in #8 that he's "a wonderful musician," though, so yes---great, shmate.

You seem to misinterpret much of what i say. I thought it was pretty clear in context that "Greatness Shmateness" referred to it not being relevant to the subject of whether he was the Not Big Thing. Which is why my "Malaby is a wonderful musician" was a clarification and not a self-contradiction.

But please continue arguing with what wasn't said.

Postby **Steve Reynolds** » October 17th, 2013, 10:17 am

There will NEVER be a "Next Big Thing" unless it is commericial dreck

yes I like to talk about Malaby

I'm not surprised Thelil didn't love him whenever he saw him

He could have been playing in a trio with tuba and drums or in some other obscure sort of band

I would think he would like the Reading Band that is playing this Saturday @ The Jazz Gallery with Ralph Alessi, Drew Gress and Billy Drummond

but even when I saw that kinda mainstreamish quartet, they go to places that 1) don't always groove or swing and 2) don't always succeed.

In fact, I have never seen Tony Malaby play when it all worked. In fact within one insane long solo during a Sidney Bechet piece, maybe 20% worked. In fact as good as he is, he is also wildly inconsistent and frustrating to see and hear live.

One night with Mario Pavone some other French tenor player took 2 pretty damn great solos through the first set and half while Tony was trying to go somewhere and getting to essentially nowhere as far as I could here....until the last long solo of the night he played what for me at that time felt like the *greatestt* tenor saxophone improvisation I ever heard.

that is Tony Malaby. I asked him once about a fairly well known free jazz tenor saxophone that my wife was impressed with and all he said is what about technique?

Maybe one of the reasons that I love Tony Malaby's playing so much is that he unlimited in what he can play (although he doesn't go the circular breathing route) and what he might play.

Postby **bluenoter** » October 17th, 2013, 10:27 am

steve(thelil) wrote:
bluenoter wrote:In this case, whether Grossman fulfilled the prediction is irrelevant. By your definition of "Next Big Thing," he wouldn't have qualified as the subject of such a prediction

Are you saying that nobody even predicted renown for Grossman? Please explain.

I apparently misunderstood your explanation of "Next Big Thing." I thought you were saying that a nominee, who might or might not fulfill the prediction, must be known and celebrated by, one may assume, even a casual jazz fan.

steve(thelil) wrote:I thought it was pretty clear in context that "Greatness Shmateness" referred to it not being relevant to the subject of whether he was the Not Big Thing. Which is why my "Malaby is a wonderful musician" was a clarification and not a self-contradiction.

But please continue arguing with what wasn't said.

Something I didn't say is that it was a self-contradiction. Rather, I agreed with you:

bluenoter wrote:so yes---great, shmate.

Postby **moldyfigg** » October 17th, 2013, 10:32 am

The next big thing will be polka bands playing acid rock.

Postby **Mike Schwartz** » October 17th, 2013, 11:56 am

Hey it's a 21st Century talkin' jazz battle [almost]!!

thelil kind of gets what the premise was intended to be, but times have certainly changed.
Sure to be leaving some out; back in the day, a musician could have an album put out on any number of MAJOR labels....Columbia, Verve, Blue Note (which is not as major as it one was, but may be the only one left), etc. and what was important support from multiple print outlets, which also went away.

Some interesting comebacks for sure.

The Next Big Thing today is probably a different model....word going out in jazzhead circles. Players like Malaby are highly respected, accomplished, and established musicians and don't fit any model. Miss Halverson probably had that distinction several years ago but has busted through (albeit in a more condensed community) with a rabid and enthusiastic fan base, myself included.

A great example given earlier is Josh Redman, who continues having a fabulous career and was definitely a mega_hyped young man going back what's probably close to 20 years ago.

Postby **Mike Schwartz** » October 17th, 2013, 12:33 pm

steve(thelil) wrote:Steve is apparently unfamiliar with the expression "the Next Big Thing"

Christopher Holliday isn't.

Postby **Jazzooo** » October 17th, 2013, 9:16 pm

I wrote a song a couple of years ago:

Do I want to grow old gracefully
Or would I rather be a silly old fool?
Do I want to be Jimmy Carter
Or Peter O' Toole?

Do I have to keep listening to the radio?
Do I need to know about the 'next big thing'?
Can't I like what I like, and just say 'fuck it!'
Or do I have to stay open?

Should I worry about the end?
Should I sit down to write, maybe my masterpiece?
Should I email all my friends:
"Hello--just in case
We all get a bad surprise tonight..."?

Postby **Pete C** » October 18th, 2013, 5:32 am

I never knew Grossman was ever the next big thing. I do remember when I heard Elvin's Live at the Lighthouse with Grossman & Liebman I called it Elvin Jones and the Two Jewish Coltranes. Later on Grossman developed a more Rollins-like tone on tenor. There's a good album on Dreyfus with the McCoy Tyner trio.

Postby **bluenoter** » October 18th, 2013, 7:58 am

Pete C wrote:Later on Grossman developed a more Rollins-like tone on tenor. There's a good album on Dreyfus with the McCoy Tyner trio.

Postby **Mike Schwartz** » October 18th, 2013, 1:42 pm

Pete C wrote:I never knew Grossman was ever the next big thing. I do remember when I heard Elvin's Live at the Lighthouse with Grossman & Liebman I called it Elvin Jones and the Two Jewish Coltranes. Later on Grossman developed a more Rollins-like tone on tenor. There's a good album on Dreyfus with the McCoy Tyner trio.

He was in the circles I was running around with back in the day.

The thread topic isn't about this one particular musician although he's been referenced a few times.

The Next Big Thing?

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